“Real asana practice produces different fibers than gymnastics does.”

can u elaborate on this?

and btw, anjaneya was a vanara, an incarnation of Rudra, one of the forms of Nataraja, the Lord of Dance..

Cheers.

As for respect, those deserve it who do not pretend to be what they are not. So, it’s about being humble and honest.
Accepting or giving bribes in a Bharatanatyam competition will not earn you respect.
Disobeying God’s will (as in Swarnamukhi’s case) will make people despise you.

If you want to get an objective (genetic) report on how close (it can be any figure from 94% to 98%)you are to an average (what’s “average” is actually yet to be determined) chimpanzee , you can very easily do it. So, within this range, we have anything from Vaanaras (98%) to Homo Sapience (94-97% range) types. Murkhas are a bit higher than vaanaras on the evolutionary scale, but education can change them to some extent. Doing yoga seriously can radically change your genes. They compared identical twins, and found their genes start to diverge more and more with age.

As for non-Indians learning Bharatanatyam, I think you are learning it for your personal development, and you are pretty well aware of the fact that you cannot really compete on the stage with the dancers in India who have been learning it daily from the age of 5.

Then, if you go to yoga classes, do you just sleep (“meditate”) there? Do you do Chakrasana, Adrha-Matsyendrasana, Vriscikasana? If you do asanas and pranayamas properly, you will never be “curvy”. I would say that anybody who spends 5 minutes a day on Kapalabhati would burn all the fat in the body.

Do you seriously expect me to tell you where I teach?

As for bashing, this is my puja for Kali. I respect those who deserve respect.

Sadly, I cant shut you up on kathak, like I did on Kuchipudi..

Personally, even though I feel the abhinaya in Kathak is really great, its too “whirly – whirly” for my taste.. I mean, after all, whats the point of whirling around so much?!

I am sure you will show us some original, true Bharatanatyam one day after going to the gym for a while!
I am not sure Padmaja Suresh will quality as original dancer.
How’s teaching in Caxias do Sul ?

By the way, what type are you?

There is no flow of thought.

I agree that most posts are just raw drafts. I don’t have a lot of time for editing. If you can help me edit them, I will post your versions.

If your intent of the blog is to get a visceral response – you are doing a great job!

It sounds like you are a dancer yourself. If it has not elevated your thinking above what you would call “Cheri”, you have failed.

Another thing – your posts are bad on a different level too. There is no flow of thought. You mix metaphors freely resulting in nonsense.
Rant, drivel are two words that come to my mind. Another word “kuzha adi sandai ”

I guess I will search elsewhere on the web to educate myself about dance from people who have constructive and useful things to say.

I want to see a new post with a video clip of you or i’ll assume that your to afraid and coward.

good day.
ashwini shankar (if thats even your real name.)

FYI – being ‘frank’ is another word for being ‘rude’

The world’s longest tala is Simhanandana Tala, equivalent to 16 avarthas of adi tala.

Simhanandini Nartanam is an ancient derivative of Kuchipudi dating back to 17th century in which the dancer, would dance on a white cloth, in the immensely complex Simhanandana Tala, and after the dance was finished, the cloth would be overturned to reveal the pattern of a lion.

Likewise Mayura Nartanam would reveal a peacock, and Mahalakshmi Udbhavam would reveal a lotus. Thanks to the efforts of C.R.Acharya, and his daughter, this item had been retained in the the Kuchipudi repertoire to this day. You can google “Simhanandini Nartanam” to get videos/pics of this.

All these three are medeival temple dances of coastal Andhra whcih come under the term Prenkhini Nartanam, which itself comes under the term Andhra Natyam along with other art forms.

If this aint classical enough for you, I wonder what will be!

Its good to maintain a healthy interest without a prejudice and trying to deplore other arts, when you know little about your own art, forget the others.

You, as a democratic citizen of India, have all rights to criticize even the greatest stalwarts of Bharatanatyam or Kuchipudi. However, there is something called conscience. If you have it, it should kill you by now, that you do not even know the basics of the dance you blog extensively on and you are commenting on people who spent their whole lives immersed in it. Whether they were good or bad is different. They at least had the dedication, whatever the incentive may have been. You do not.

Take heed.

God bless you.
Cheers.

What a self righteous fraud you are!!!

What a hypocrite you are!!

Leave rasikas.org, what about all the other links… if you choose to ignore, well ignorance is bliss then..

Bottom line: Kuchipudi is faster than Bharatanatyam. Live with it.

I dont ramble ignorantly.

Lol, you live in the small little world of Chennai and thus your eyes are closed to everything else. You really have a very very weak understanding of theory.

There are numerous posts on the net itself about why and how Kuchipudi is faster. However, Bharatanatyam is more physically demanding than Kuchipudi, precisely because it is slower than Kuchipudi. Kuchipudi is a fast race while Bharatanatyam is like a slow jog, and hence more physically demanding. You can refer these:

http://rasikas.org/forum/topic5880-bharathanatyam-for-the-uninitiated-p3.html

“The dance form, Kuchipudi, is named after the tiny village where it originated in Andhra Pradesh. With the Bharatanatyam, It shares its origins from the early scriptures of the Natya Shastra. Many of its movements and gestures are also similar but it has much that is unique about it. It is generally faster, more spirited than Bharatanatyam yet at the same time it retains a stately sophistication and graciousness. ”

http://writeworld.org/kuchipudi.html

“Bharatnatyam is precisely known for its elegance, grace, softness, clarity and sculptured poses. On the other hand most of the poses in Kuchipudi are brisk, flat-footed, dazzling and overall curved having more rounded poses.”

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-bharatnatyam-and-kuchipudi/

This was on a tamil dance rasika forum:

“Another thing I heard from her was that jathis in kuchipudi are so fast that they rarely fit into Taalam…I am not sure if this is the case. Can anyone throw some light on this?”

Source: http://rasikas.org/forum/topic5880-bharathanatyam-for-the-uninitiated-p3.html

Without knowing anything, why do you open your big fat mouth to display your arrogance and ignorance? If you now say that all these links are false, and you alone know what is right, then good for you and Ashwini Akhanda Brahmanda NijaNatyam.

Kuchipudi is originated as a form of dance drama with religious themes. Kuchipudi gives importance to Vakyartha Abhinaya(use of words or dialogues).According to tradition this dance is originally performed by men of the Brahmin community.It has a rich repertoire of Kalapas and Yakshaganas,dance dramas and solos.Kuchipudi music is based on pure classical ragas and taalas.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yeg992h

Question:
What is the difference between Bharat Natyam and Kuchipudi?

Answer:
Two parallel schools of dance have existed since time immemorial, viz. Nattuva Mela and Natya Mela. The former evolved into Bharat Natyam and the latter into Kuchipudi. There is difference in the presentation itself. The main difference lies in the abhinaya. The graceful, lasya oriented Kuchipudi gives importance to Vakyartha abhinaya go together. Bharatanatyam on the other hand is Mudra oriented and gives importance to Padartha abhinaya, each word interpreted through mudras. Certain movements are characteristic to Kuchipudi. Vachika abhinaya (use of words/dialogues) is also a special feature of the Kuchipudi style.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yzk7dre

While Bharatanatyam involved `padaartha’ (word) abhinaya, Kuchipudi is anchored on `vaakya’ (sentence) abhinaya. It was imperative that the dancer render the songs during the performance and the lip movements be distinctly visible to the audience.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yhk27rq

In choreographing lyrics, the difference from bharatanATyam becomes very evident – bharatanATyam choreography is padArtha – meaning, each word of the sAhitya is matched by a corresponding action, while in kucipuDi it is vAkyArtha – with the actions bringing out the general import of the sAhitya. For example, take the phrase ‘nI ingE vA’ – in bharatanATyam, the actions will match ‘you’,'here’, and ‘come’ in that order, while it is perfectly acceptable in kucipuDi to mime ‘you come here’.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yclg936

My, my, judging by this, Ashwini Akhanda NijaNatyam is going to be a class apart!

Its never too late to learn. Here are some starters:

Bharatanatyam is based on ‘Adavu’ (Steps) and ‘Hasta Mudra’ (handgestures). The dancer artistically tells stories and events from the epics through mudras (movements of the hand and feet) and facial expressions.This dance is poetry in motion.Bharathanatyam gives importance to Padartha Abhinaya.The music of Bharathanatyam is based on Carnatic Classical Music.

Kuchipudi is originated as a form of dance drama with religious themes. Kuchipudi gives importance to Vakyartha
Abhinaya(use of words or dialogues).According to tradition this dance is originally performed by men of the Brahmin community.It has a rich repertoire of Kalapas and Yakshaganas,dance dramas and solos.Kuchipudi music is based on pure classical ragas and taalas.

Source: http://www.dancevillage.org/dances.html

Question:
What is the difference between Bharat Natyam and Kuchipudi?

Answer:
Two parallel schools of dance have existed since time immemorial, viz. Nattuva Mela and Natya Mela. The former evolved into Bharat Natyam and the latter into Kuchipudi. There is difference in the presentation itself. The main difference lies in the abhinaya. The graceful, lasya oriented Kuchipudi gives importance to Vakyartha abhinaya go together. Bharatanatyam on the other hand is Mudra oriented and gives importance to Padartha abhinaya, each word interpreted through mudras. Certain movements are characteristic to Kuchipudi. Vachika abhinaya (use of words/dialogues) is also a special feature of the Kuchipudi style.

Source: http://www.faq4me.net/Dancing/1552210.htm

While Bharatanatyam involved `padaartha’ (word) abhinaya, Kuchipudi is anchored on `vaakya’ (sentence) abhinaya. It was imperative that the dancer render the songs during the performance and the lip movements be distinctly visible to the audience.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2007/04/13/stories/2007041300330200.htm

In choreographing lyrics, the difference from bharatanATyam becomes very evident – bharatanATyam choreography is
padArtha – meaning, each word of the sAhitya is matched by a corresponding action, while in kucipuDi it is vAkyArtha
- with the actions bringing out the general import of the sAhitya. For example, take the phrase ‘nI ingE vA’ – in bharatanATyam, the actions will match ‘you’,'here’, and ‘come’ in that order, while it is perfectly acceptable inkucipuDi to mime ‘you come here’.

Source: http://rasikas.org/forum/topic5880-bharathanatyam-for-the-uninitiated-p3.html

My, my, judging by this Ashwini Akhanda Brahmanda NijaNatyam is going to be a class apart.

hahahahahahaha

For starters you can see these

bharatanATyam choreography is padArtha – meaning, each word of the sAhitya is matched by a corresponding action, while in kucipuDi it is vAkyArtha – with the actions bringing out the general import of the sAhitya. For example, take the phrase ‘nI ingE vA’ – in bharatanATyam, the actions will match ‘you’,'here’, and ‘come’ in that order, while it is perfectly acceptable in kucipuDi to mime ‘you come here’.

Source: http://rasikas.org/forum/topic5880-bharathanatyam-for-the-uninitiated-p3.html

While Bharatanatyam involved `padaartha’ (word) abhinaya, Kuchipudi is anchored on `vaakya’ (sentence) abhinaya. It was imperative that the dancer render the songs during the performance and the lip movements be distinctly visible to the audience.

Source: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2007/04/13/stories/2007041300330200.htm

The Bharatanatyam dance form is based on ‘Adavu’ (Steps) and ‘Hasta Mudra’ (handgestures). The dancer artistically tells stories and events from the epics through mudras (movements of the hand and feet) and facial expressions.This dance is poetry in motion.Bharathanatyam gives importance to Padartha Abhinaya.The music of Bharathanatyam is based on Carnatic Classical Music.

Kuchipudi is originated as a form of dance drama with religious themes. Kuchipudi gives importance to Vakyartha Abhinaya(use of words or dialogues).According to tradition this dance is originally performed by men of the Brahmin community.It has a rich repertoire of Kalapas and Yakshaganas,dance dramas and solos.Kuchipudi music is based on pure classical ragas and taalas.
Source: http://www.dancevillage.org/dances.html

Question:
What is the difference between Bharat Natyam and Kuchipudi?

Answer:
Two parallel schools of dance have existed since time immemorial, viz. Nattuva Mela and Natya Mela. The former evolved into Bharat Natyam and the latter into Kuchipudi. There is difference in the presentation itself. The main difference lies in the abhinaya. The graceful, lasya oriented Kuchipudi gives importance to Vakyartha abhinaya go together. Bharatanatyam on the other hand is Mudra oriented and gives importance to Padartha abhinaya, each word interpreted through mudras. Certain movements are characteristic to Kuchipudi. Vachika abhinaya (use of words/dialogues) is also a special feature of the Kuchipudi style.

Source: http://www.faq4me.net/Dancing/1552210.htm

You know, before you enlightened us on the difference between Kuchipudi’s and Bharatanatyam’s approach to narrative (which is not really related to padaartha – vaakyartha abhinaya), I had the impression that it was just the other way around!

1) The method of handling Abhinaya is different in Kuchipudi and Bharatanatyam:

Bharatanatyam follows padaartha abhinaya, where every word is interpreted through mudras. Kuchipudi follows vaakyartha abhinaya, which means the sentence as a whole is taken for interpretation. Most of you must have wondered, why the same line is repeated a lot of times in Kuchipudi, if you observe closely, everytime the interpretation is represented in a different fashion. As such, in this aspect Kuchipudi allows for more manodharma (on the spot improvisation) than Bharatanatyam. However, Kuchipudi doesn’t deal with abstract forms of expression at all, while Bharatanatyam has great scope for manodharma in the abstract genre.

2) Most of the mudras used in Bharatanatyam and Kuchipudi are same, while depicting. However, the slight difference is that Bharatanatyam usually follows an outsider approach to narrative. For example:
- The line “Rama took his bride Sita to Ayodhya”
In Bharatanatyam, the dancer depicts “There is Rama, there is Sita, and he is taking her to Ayodhya” through the Abhinaya.

In Kuchipudi its usually like,when the line is played first, the dancer depicts, “I am Rama, I am taking Sita to Ayodhya”
When the line is repeated the next time, “I am Sita, Rama is taking me to Ayodhya”, and the next time, ” I am watching Sita being taken to Ayodhya by Rama” etc through Abhinaya.

This is what I mean by the difference between padaartha Abhinaya and vaakyartha Abhinaya.

Kuchipudi being the more faster of the two, the Abhinaya movements are sharp to be efficiently grasped by the viewers. The Bharatanatyam practitioners usually feel it is way too exhibitionist for the same reason.

Kuchipudi traditionally has more pradhanya on Abhinaya (vachika included), as it is essentially a dance-drama form, unlike other classical art forms of India. Bharatanatyam on the other hand, has a tendency to focus more on nritta. If you notice, various abhinaya pradhanya items like Padams, and Javalis have been traditionally the domain of Kuchipudi, although in the last century a healthy exchange of ideas, led to their being adopted into Bharatanatyam also for exposition.

Hope this answers your question Suma.

Bharatanatyam artistes have never potrayed all of them, neither have Kuchipudi artistes

Wow! Yesterday you said the opposite. Are you going to become a politician?

As for Dasiattam and Rukmini Devi, there is a weak relation between the two. Yes, she was a good lobbyist and a politician.

Kuchipudi, as an intergral part of the Natya Shastra

I am trying to understand how Kuchipudi – which appeared much later – happened to be an integral part of Natya Shastra (which was written thousands of years before!)
Anyway, it seems those fraud Brahmins didn’t even know what subjects Rama and his brother learnt!

As for the Vedas, can you tell me about a single instance of a Kuchipudi’s dancer saying a mantra that actually produced any effect other than increasing the fat layer on the stomach? The hereditary family of priests in the Venugopalaswamy temple – like the “hereditary devadasis” – knew that castes only started to be “inherited” very recently, when the Hindu dharma collapsed. In Kali Yuga, there is only 1 varna: sudras (remember, Bharata Muni’s 100 disciples incarnated as Sudras, and Natya Shastra says, “...after the Treta Yuga commenced…. the gods asked Brahma, “As the 4 Vedas are not to be listened to by those born as Sudras, please create another Veda which will suit all varnas“). So your hereditary family of priests in the Venugopalaswamy temple are as good as Osama bin Laden’s family. They have nothing to do with the Vedas. This is the reason Archeological Survey took control over most medium and big temples.

If you have indeed heard Bhama kalapam’s entrance song 10 times, I wonder how being a self styled “dancer”, you missed out the highly evident strains of Bhairavi in Mishra Chapu.

“60 years ago the Sangeet Natak Akademi had the same doubts as I do!”

Indeed. But that was 60 years ago. Infact I can also say that until Rukmini Devi came along, the same was true of Bharatanatyam or Cathir/ Dasiattam. So is that simply a courtesan dance then, a vulgar shameless marketing method?

“No Kuchipudi dancer SO FAR learnt the 64 subjects, and none has been able to understand anything written in the Vedas. This is a proof that the dumb Siddhendra Yogi was a fraudster.”

You really need to improve not only your English writing, but reading skills as well! Ill try to teach you reading first (i do not want to deal with the highly unpleasant task of purging your debased writing skills), generous that I am. I know its difficult for you to keep up, but kindly exert your limited faculties:

“The Brahmin boys alone, becuase ACCORDING TO THAT AGE, Kuchipudi, as an intergral part of the Natya Shastra, was part of vedic learning and could not be taught to others.”

So the question of Kuchipudi artistes TODAY or SO FAR is irrelevant. And unless you quote a source or a credible reference for your comment about none of we dancers understanding vedas, Ill believe it to be as true as “Ashwini akhanda brahmanda nijanatyam”, and thus one to be laughed at.

The 64 kalas are not part of “vedic learning” by the way. And in olden days, most of the dancers being Vaidiki Brahmin boys, indeed knew how to perform the traditional temple rituals according to Vedas, the herditary family of priests in the Venugopalaswamy temple, to this day are pujaris AND kuchipudi dancers.

“A man who can shut me up has not been born yet. ”

The point, my dear, is that many have done so, quite a lot times. And you pretend to ignore it, and plough on, shamelessly, brashly, while the insecurity rages on inside your heart. Infact, I am pretty sure by now, that some Mylapore Brahmin guy who knows Bharatanatyam has ditched you bigtime, which explains this blog and all else, you spew out.

The weather in Goa, is perfect- I could arrange a show of yours here, the All India inauguration of the Ashwini Akhanda Brahmanda NijaNatyam”. Care to arrive? this being a relatively unexposed part, you can pass off anything you want here as dance.

Cheers.

If you cannot respond to most of my points, it makes it funnier! Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder?

2) The two karanas you have mentioned.

I mentioned 3 of them.
The point was, why did you and Vempati stress that all 108 have always been part of Kuchipudi? It’s a false statement. He has never taught any karanas to anyone!

A man who can shut me up has not been born yet.

I doubt that you know what the meaning of classical dance is.

Oh! Please enlighten me!

If you have ever even heard Bhama Kalapam

I think I have watched it more than 10 times.

has somebody argued that Kuchipudi is a folk form. It is only YOU. Not everybody, just you.

Really? 60 years ago the Sangeet Natak Akademi had the same doubts as I do!

You also show a lack of even the basic research skills, as I shall proceed to demonstrate.

So now that I have shut you up on the ” idiotic innovation females prohibited” point also, I cannot resist taking the opportunity to summarily shut you up once and for all in this comment.

See, my dear lady, finding a host of names and posing questions in a variety of ways is nt an equivalent of a show of intelligence. You may remember Maitreyi, who, when raising dumb questions of obscure philosophy in scientific discussions, was unceremoniously told to shut up. OBSCURANTISM and getting know of a few words and terms is NEVER an equivalent of knowledge. And I am amused at they way you stick to your wet guns even though you yourself acknowledge that you know zilch of kuchipudi. Is this a case of not being able to digest rejection in dance and hiding behind some compulsive blogging disorder? The psychological symptoms are quite clear in your excessively disgusting use of language.

Even though you prove yourself unworthy time and again of receiving any knowledge, I shall deign to give you some:

1) “So why didn’t Vilasini Natyam find a space under that umbrella? By the way, what 120 adavus are there in Vilasini Natyam that are not used in Kuchipudi?”

I do not find anything to the effect that you have found a great point in it, that you proceed to ornament it with your lame emoticons.

You ask me why didnt it find a place? I ask you why should it? Vilasini Natyam, as the name suggests is essentially a courtesan dance, revived primarily by Swapna Sundari. Andhra Natyam’s focus has traditionally been spiritualistic. Be it, Navajanardana Parijatham, or Perini Tandavam or Prenkhini Nartanam, or anything which comes under the term “Andhra Natyam”, they all have a religious focus. That is not the main focus of Vilasini Natyam. Hence the two are not the same. And anyway, it was Mr. C . R . Acharyulu’s prerogative since he just coined a name and nothing else.

As for your second point on 120 adavus, I am not knowledgeable about Vilasini Natyam. So I refrain from commenting and making cavalier observations about it, unlike you.

So here, you had got hold of a name called “Vilasini Natyam” (you are improving your googling skills hourly) and asked me, what you thought was a Deeeep question on Kuchipudi, while the two arent even strictly related. Why are you trying to become winding in your approach, and misleading the discussion AND yourself? You think you can win an argument by diverting it, and making it what you think is obscure? This couldn’t get more amusing. LOL. what an insecure person you are!

2) The two karanas you have mentioned. I have read nowhere that the use of talavilasitam and gangasuchi (I know that you dont even know how they look, you simply picked them off a list of karanas you googled), solely qualifies a dance as classical. I doubt that you know what the meaning of classical dance is.
If you have ever even heard Bhama Kalapam, leave alone the other numbers, AND if you had an inkling of Carnatic Music knowledge, you would instantly make out that its set in Bhairavi. Most shabdams, tarangams are in Mohana, but some are also styled in Mukhari, Khamas, Kambhoji and Kalyani, Kedaragowla etc. I neednt talk of swarajathis (that’s the predecessor of jathiswaram in Bharatanatyam). So you (by which you mean “everybody” thanks to your megalomania) term them as folk tunes? Is there any field where you actually have some REAL knowledge, leave alone expertise?

What is fact is that, not even on the worldwide web where much tosh is daily written, has somebody argued that Kuchipudi is a folk form. It is only YOU. Not everybody, just you. I can quote umpteen Tamil scholars who have said that themselves. Here is a sample, search in it yourself:
http://www.archive.org/stream/anothergarlandbo014528mbp/anothergarlandbo014528mbp_djvu.txt

I suspect you are one of those lost souls, who find a conspiracy theory in everything. I can suggest some Chennai rehabs, but I doubt they admit terminal cases.

Oh, and if this is your way of attracting hits by writing glaringly bawdy posts in your various blogs, to finally get enough money to hold your arangetram, I must say, you are doing pretty well. That would explain a lot of your observations on all and sundry. Rather like a dancer, who does a cabaret to get money for her bharatanatyam show. Good for you!

Suggestion: Improve your English skills, the grammatical mistakes might throw off some readers, costing you precious paise!!

Cheers.

( Go on, let this be posted, it will not only attract more hits, it will give you a chance to throw some more sophistry and obscurantism at me, which you simply cannot resist)

So far you Googled out that “the 20th Karana is very often used in Kuchipudi”? That’s all?
You preferred to ignore my question which Kuchipudi dancers and when used Talavilasitam, Gangasuci or Gangavataranam in Kuchipudi, and the compositions in 22 srutis. What everybody knows is that Kuchipudi dancers use and abuse the same folk tune and talam a million times.

So would you please tell is where they teach all the 108 karanas? None of the karanas are taught in Vempati’s academy.
And how satvika abhinaya is taught? And how Kuchipudi dancers misuse the term “bhava” to denote “hava”?

As for “100% Natya Shastra based” dance form, yes, so far it exists in my dreams only. I find it amusing that some believe that adavus were outlined in Natya Shastra.

Your attempt to justify that Kuchipudi was only taught to boys because it was “was part of vedic learning” is very lame. Vedic learning includes 64 subjects, and learning the Vedas in the original. No Kuchipudi dancer so far learnt the 64 subjects, and none has been able to understand anything written in the Vedas. This is a proof that the dumb Siddhendra Yogi was a fraudster.

C.R. Acharyulu didn’t “create” Andhra Natyam. He simply gave a name, an umbrella term if you may, to a host of art forms other than Kuchipudi

So why didn’t Vilasini Natyam find a space under that umbrella? By the way, what 120 adavus are there in Vilasini Natyam that are not used in Kuchipudi?

See, all the six pada bhedas (Udghattita, Sama, Agratala-Sanchara, Anchita, Kunchita and Suchi) mentioned in the Natya Shastra, The 67 Hasta Mudras, 13 Samyuta and 24 Asamyuta and 30 Nritta Hastas with the 108 Karanas, Charis, and Mándalasas mentioned in the Natya-Sastra have always been taught to the students of Kuchipudi, where many solo items (called pravesa daruvus) taken from the original dance dramas have remained unchanged and are still presented tday in the same fashion as they were hundreds of years ago.

The 20th Karana is very often used in Kuchipudi. Apart from the six padabhedas I mentioned earlier, Kuchipudi dancers also use some adugulu or adavus traditional to this school – they are: Chaukam, Katteranatu, Kuppi Adugu, Ontaduvu,Jaraduvu, Pakkanatu.Kuchipudi is significantly the only classical style that has laid equal emphasis on all four abhinayas as advocated by Natya Shastra – angika, VACHIKA, ahaarya and satvika, since anceint days.

Kuchipudi had gained renown not only in the Andhra land, but also in Tamil nadu, where Bhagavthars from the Nattuva Mela sampradaya of Kuchipudi were given land near Melattur by Achutappa Nayaka, a Nayaka ruler. Famous courtesans of the Golden Tanjore Age, like Rangajamma, Krishnasani and others were composing complex yakshaganas (this is totally a different term fr the kannada version, means “ballet”) like Vipranarayana whcih are still used in Kuchipudi to this day.

I could wax eloquent more, but with your characteristic pseudocool disdain for people who make you insecure when they tell you something u don’t know, you may not open up your airheaded mind, therefore I give you the links also, so that you do not have to use your technically disabled brain to search:
http://www.krishnaganasabha.org/articles/198687/Classisism%20in%20Kuchipudi%20by%20Dr.P.%20Venugopala%20Rao.pdf

vempati’s son himself states that his father “realized the inherent classicism in Kuchipudi”.
(http://odissi.blogspot.com/2008/01/vempatti-ravi-shankar.html)

I realize that you never quote any credible sources in your arguments, wonder why that is, if you are indeed are truthful in what you speak. First of all, you yourself admit that you know nothing, still you have the brash audacity to question me further like an equal, I shall not grant you that privilege, unworthy as you are. If you want to learn, try learning with an open mind and request me humbly.

Every dance form goes thru a decadent patch, Bharatanatyam itself was struggling in such throes where it was thought to be little more than a courtesan’s potrayal of her body, to attract more customers, till reform of some kind for good or bad, happened under Rukmini Devi. Likewise for Kuchipudi. But with ignorance to equate Kuchipudi to Salsa in the context of Natya Shastra, even the most child like and brazen bawdy person would not have dared to do so.

Given the social mores of the time, no socially respectable woman was allowed to dance (the same holds true even for Bharatanatyam)in the days of Siddhendra Yogi, but in the spreading of Bhakti, whcih was the main intent of his, he had to use female mythological characters also, for which he roped in Brahmin boys for the reason given by you. The Brahmin boys alone, becuase according to that age, Kuchipudi, as an intergral part of the Natya Shastra, was part of vedic learning and could not be taught to others. However, even since pre-kuchipudi times, there have been two dance schools of thought in AP, the Natya Mela and the Nattuva Mela. The Natya Mela referring to the court dance performed by both men and women. The Natya Mela also became a part of Kuchipudi tradition which means that women were performing Kuchipudi (on themes of Sringara more than Bhakti), and were not FORBIDDEN from doing so.

If I wanted, I could argue that the Melattur School of Bharatanatyam is simply an offshoot of Kuchipudi, that Bharatanatyam is infact less faithful to Natya Shastra than Kuchipudi (lesser use of glances, or bhramaris or many other features, more abhinaya pradhanya in Kuchipudi etc) or that half the dance items in Bharatanatyam’s reportoire today, like all the Telugu songs (Padams etc), have originally been designed for and are used in Kuchipudi, reflecting a certain lack of creativity in the stagnant form of Bharatanatyam over the ages, But I dont. I do not dare to flaunt my ignorance, I accept that there are limits to my knowledge and am humble enough to acknowledge it. To actually think of questioning the merits of Siddhendra Yogi and the likes, I realize you arent a true pasisonate beleiver in dance, for none such could have said that.

I pity you. Thats all I can say.

This shall be my last post here. If you want to clear your doubts you may do so, by mailing me. But do NOT henceforth venture to ramble on topics where your knowledge is zero.

To get down to your points, can you enlighten me and say who you remember performing Talavilasitam, Gangasuci (on the floor) or Gangavataranam in Kuchipudi, and the compositions in 22 srutis? Vempati would like us to believe that “108 Karanas and also the Charis and Mandala are part of the Kuchipudi repertoire“. Ironically, in this fraudster’s Kuchipudi Dance Academy here, NONE of the karanas are taught! Maybe the “108″ were part of Vempati’s imagination, the imagination that was too far from Padma Subrahmaniam’s! What is common to both is that they never even understood what is Satvika abhinaya. Unlike Vempati, Padma Subrahmaniam knows Sanscrit a bit and didn’t swallow the dumb “Aryan invasion” theory forged by Max Muller and promoted by the East Indian Company on the “divide and rule” principle even before the Partition of India.

The gentleman who is well-known for removing vachika abhinaya from Kuchipudi, put it on his web site, “the use of vachika abhinaya is a special feature of the Kuchipudi style. The dancer not merely dance, but also acts with gestures as well as words. And towards this end he has o train his voice also in order to project it properly in the improvised theatres“. Wild fancy?

Or maybe you can tell us why Siddhendra Yogi decided that Kuchipudi has to be performed only by men while Bharata Muni would have cursed him for such an idiotic “innovation”. Vempati tells us that “Siddhendra Yogi feared that… the dancers already excelled in the art of portraying the Sringara rasa or romantic love, they may exaggerate the sentiments and destroy its lofty spiritual ethos. Naturally he decided to initiate only young and good-looking Brahmin boys into the art“. What a “reason”! “He broke new ground by adapting the format of the existing Yakshagana folk dance dramas“.

Besides, where is the idiotic dancing on a brass plate or with the intertwined toes prescribed in the Natya Shastra???

You may remember Brahma’s gift of 26 apsaras because men are not capable of performing a lot of things women do and excel at, unlike power electronics? What is clear is that neither Siddhendra nor Vempati have understood even 10% of Natya Shastra. If tomorrow some Salsa dancers start using a few mudras, will it make Salsa “classical Indian dance”? Folk dance is folk dance, and much of today’s Bharatanatyam is folk too.

What you call “reviving” and others “reconstructing”, I call “creating”. I call a spade a spade.

To give u a taste of my brains.. here u go:
1) Nobody “incorporated” the elements of Natya Shastra into Kuchipudi… they have been present all along: the mudras, the sancharis, karanas and all. Vempati contributed to kuchipudi a refined distinct style of his. That doesn’t mean he “incorporated” them- brush up both your English and your googling skills.

(Looks like “what you know” is seldom right.. and unless you are sure.. its best to keep shut)

2) C.R. Acharyulu didn’t “create” Andhra Natyam. He simply gave a name, an umbrella term if you may, to a host of art forms other than Kuchipudi which existed in the Andhra land, like Perini, Navajanardana Parijatham, Pagativeshalu etc. They were in existence long before C R Acharyulu was even conceived of. Reviving art forms doesnt mean “creating” them. (here you should refer the last two lines of point 1 again)

And I highly doubt that the jhola flinging artsy fartsy type like you can actually have the brains to match me, an engineering student in a premier college of India, in a battle of wits. I suggest you go back to your lone, bawdy tantrum of Bharatanatyam.

Unless you have an authority on an art form, you are in position to comment on, leave alone slander it. Take heed.

(Im not sure if you will let it pass through your “convenient” moderation for fear of your hurting your megalomania.)

Although I admit I know very little about Kuchipudi, I do understand that as long as a dance form is not related to Natya Shastra it is not “classical” but folk. After all, what else made Nataraja Ramakrishna & Co “create” Andhra Natyam 30 years ago? At the same time when Padma Subrahmaniam was creating “Bharatanrityam”?
What I know is that – in the second half of the past century – it was people like Vempatti and Chilakamari Rama Acharyulu (C.R.Acharya) who tried to incorporate some of the Natya Shastra elements into Kuchipudi.

In your overtly desperate attempt to sound cavalier and cool or whatever, you draw very “stupid” conclusions. I could rant and rave like you challenging you on a number of points, but I have a life, so I leave it at that.

When someone asks you for a balanced view, for all your proclaimed sense of piety and adherence to tenets of Shastras, you wallow in trying to sound cool. Hypocrite!

Blog zillions of pages on all the dirt that goes on in Bharatanatyam as you humanly can, as I am guessing you can make some sense of it, but you very evidently do NOT have even an inkling of Kuchipudi. So you can shut your extra large mouth on the subject.

Aren’t you a classical fraud “dancer”? If I don’t see your “ability and achievement“, what to do if I see in your videos no dancing ability and no achievement whatsoever?

I laughed when I imagined myself accepting your offer and coming to St.Louis to support promoting your Carnatic sax concerts, the Tap dancing, garba and crappy Kathak as my “volunteer work without getting paid“! Gee! I wouldn’t do it even if I was paid millions! I would rather go to Kongo volunteering to cook gorillas (that’s what the negros eat there) on a full-time basis. As for the Vaanara, it was perhaps a bit too extreme to call your buffalo “networking partner” a gorilla. What to do, I am not a zoo keeper. I don’t need this kind of “exposure”.

Amen.

I am not here to win any argument. I am disclosing a scenario. You may find it stupid. But it is true. Because, truth has many facets, I have looked in one way, ofcourse, you have looked in a different way, although in a pretty crude way.

My projects are meant for different purposes. You have mixed up the issues and my projects in a distorted way. I have putforth my thoughts, anyone is most welcome to critique and comment. Insulting a good artist like “Vaanara” only reflects only your own inner soul.

I loved, wondered and laughed at all your sharp comments. Yet, I am surprised see, lack of understanding of the reality of certain dancers by persons like you.

For example – When we are trying to reach with simple stuff like 8 beats and aditala – you are expecting us to disclose
ashtottara sata talam system to Indians.

Well, this is not Chennai. It is a different challenge.

As Saint Purandara dasa says – “Vishavikkidavanigu shadrasavanu unisalu beku… mosa maadidavana hesara maganige idalu beku….”. You are not as bad as them.

With this response, I will end my participation of this debate. You may most welcome to continue writing more on “How I wrote” this response, “how un-intelligent” is “Prasanna, and how he is wasting his time and effort”.

God bless you.

As for the deep Bhakti, the NRI children are hard to teach because they grow up with Mickey Mouse in their head, not Durga or Shiva.

What I have written is the story of many people like me. By looking at the responses of Ashwini Shankar, I am concluding she has no idea what happens in the real life in USA.

Just to let you know, when it comes to understanding of traditional art forms, we still have work just like we need to work in Lahore or Kinshasa, except that we live in a free country, where we can exercise our rights. Just to let you know, I did come as a qualified person to USA and not on the back of a truck. I do have a Vidwath rank. Most of my Bharathanatyam education was done by two great teachers – Lalitha Srinivasan and Narmada. My Kathak was taught by Dr. Mayarao. I respect them forever. Ashwini has such a discontent with learning. Pretty embarrassing for any progressive student.

The main point of my article was to suggest temples should extend their patronage to traditional dance forms, apart from routine religious works. This has to be done atleast for the religious aspect of traditional dances.

Tradition will be built by innovation. In our times, we are doing what others did previously. We have been exposed to so many varieties of dance. Hence all the collaboration. I am very happy I am doing this. This is where everyone will be headed if there is no openings for traditional base. This means, as a classical dancer, we will have less opportunity to perform any dances related to Hindu religion.

It appears that Ashwini has a good knowledge of dancing, but unfortunately she does not care about other artist’s ability and achievement. Pretty sad. This is the exact nature of good hearted dancers, which has led to depreciate other’s dance, in turn the art itself.

This is my message for her.

Get real.

Please do come to St. Louis and join Soorya Performing Arts as a member. It is an open Public organization. We are looking for brave people like Ashwini to come and do some volunteer work without getting paid (like I do, as I work close to 30 – 35 hours a week, with no compensation).

Prasanna Kasthuri

http://rasikas.org/forum/topic10895-a-very-very-contemporary-margam-innovation-within-tradition.html

Today I perused articles on Narthaki and found that publishing of the “newest” one (that Lalitha allegedly wrote on July 18 – 24 but has been unable to publish it before 16 Sept) on http://narthaki.com/info/articles/art254.html was most likely provoked by my report:

A big problem in true reporting is, no one wants to write about controversies. The most popular excuse is, “I want to write, but I can’t.” Either you write about such things rudely and be ostracized, or you make compromises, hold back on your evaluation and stay on. The writer may not like to do it, but is forced to. This is one of the main difficulties faced by a critic… Even more difficult is the criticism of very senior artistes who take umbrage and who one does not want to bring down in stature. How to treat these dancers in criticism, is far more difficult and a delicate job.

The more prominent gurus are like politicians, so this disease happens more often among them. Garbage floats up to the water surface, you know.
Saipriya, most gurus are not so mercantile. Get out of your depression, find yourself a less greedy guru. That’s the easy way.

There is a more challenging way. Even the most corrupt gurus and politicians have a soul. Your respect and affection, your hopes and expectations, it does not change anything. If you want to make a change, make an effort, you can try to bring their soul out of the hole it stuck. It will require from you a lot of will and sincerity and time. With the spiritual power, you can transform even a totally degraded individual into a saint. Otherwise, if this individual cannot be transformed, the intensity of your spiritual power, Shakthi, will simply kill him.

Suma, I my posts I described how vastly different the abhinaya training is in different “Bharatanatyam” styles. Some Bharatanatyam styles that have a close affinity to Kuchipudi, for example, use lip movements to mark Vachikaabhinaya. However, here is a problem: unless you have a great stamina, your lip movements will be marred as many Bharatanatyam pieces are far more physically demanding than the leisurely Kuchipudi. Basically, Kuchipudi was a folk dance until Vempatti discovered Natya Shastra!

Thanks!

i have regularly followed your blog and at first it was shocking to read something so straight forward.but there is a lot of things mentioned which are truly eye openers.
this particular blog about the gurus came to my mind again and again in the last 2-3 days.
i have been learing bharatanatya and i have been learning it with a lot of devotion.i could not afford to continue dance for aa many years and now i have a stable income because of which i have continued my learning.i knw how it felt to want to learn dance but could not.
when i read about many teachers who have just one motive-to loot students,to fill their pockets,be an opportunist, it was dis heartening .at the same time i believed that my teachers are not like that.
when got to hear atings aout my teacher, i just could not accept it.i mean how can my teachers be like that?i am shocked to hear that they would teach a particular varnam only when the stuednt pays a very hugh sum.if an arangetrm costs nearly 3 lak rs,then it is equivalent to a crime for middle class people to even think about it.
i amalmost at the verge of getting into a depression .
i know that there is truth in this.i have not seen anyone in our class who has got chance to do arangetrum and being from middle class family.
i really wonder if there is any teacher who is not like this?
i wonder how can they face themselves and put on such a fake mask..doesnt it rick them when all the students lok u to them andwill so much of respect and affection.
i did not expect anyone to teach for no dakshina, but i think it is truly disheartening if you are not taught something only because they feel yu have not paid them enough.
i beg for forgiveness from God for this venting.i know He will always guide me..no matter what.

I am looking forward to reading your critiques. Let everybody see how discerning your mind’s eye is! I hope you were not bluffing when you said that being critical is very easy!!!!!!

Yes, of course, since you are part of Sudharani’s corporation, your view is very biased.

when i say this… instead of analyzing the dancer and her physical attributes

You can tell it to Bharata Muni and to the poets: instead of describing a characters physical attributes… This blog is not dedicated to Psychiatry.

why don’t u try to involve yourself with what they are trying to express…

Some bed-ridden patients in hospitals also try to express something all the time, but I am not their doctor, sorry.
It is up to the dancer to win the hearts and the minds of the audience. If the dancer fails to get us involved, whose fault is it? Get off the stage and go sell cigarettes on the pavement. If someone has a very strong desire to hog the stage and be in the centre of attention, send them to a psychiatric clinic where they can express themselves as much as they want.

you’ve lambasted the seniors in the field but they have absolutely nothing to lose.

Of course they do: their future. Before they die, they will have to answer one question, “Have you always done your best in your life? Have you followed your highest ideals?”
They will also lose their students’ hearts. And the audience also is growing more and more aware of the wide-spread fraud in the dance field.

their market is still alive their students are very much around and their art is still being well-received!

Where is the market? You will see how soon it will change. You can try to protect your business, but if you don’t adapt to the changing circumstances and conditions, your business will die quickly.

I know this is a public forum and you can put up whatever you want but my only request is don’t belittle the doyens…

Doyens??? Are they saints, or what? They are exposed fraudsters, that’s all they are.

unlike some people we respect and revere our gurus for there is nothing greater than learning the art form from them.

Oh, nothing greater??? How poetic! (and how false!) Since when dance instructors and maths teachers started being called “gurus”? What exactly do you revere Sudharani for, may I ask you? I understand that some AIDMK cadre even cut off their fingers to show their reverence to Jayalalitha, but I am not part of your clans.

and the physical form of any woman, dancer or non-dancer is short lived!!!

Go tell it to Alarmel Valli. Isn’t it a shame that some European ballet dancers of Sudharani’s age are in better shape than Priya Murle?

that is the law of life!!

We know many instances when many laws of life have been changed. Go, educate yourself. Or maybe Sudharani does not allow you to do it?

so why do u expect something different from a dancer??

Not me, it’s Bharata Muni. 90% of the article is the answer to your question. Or maybe you can no longer read? You can only write, yes?

if people don’t want to see a wrinkled fat woman on stage then choose not to..

Of course they choose not to, this is why the auditoriums are empty. Only their students are there. If the wrinkled fat women want to hog the stage and the TV, they will soon think twice before they venture there again.

there are plenty of thin “pretty”dancers also performing today..It gives no one any right to condemn their art altogether!!

I do not remember allowing you to give me any rights or to withdraw them.

being critical is very easy ashwini..:)

Really? Go ahead, write something critical and let us read.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8R44YU22xo

her troupe dances normal like human whereas she goes over the top, by opening and closing her mouth as if shes lacking hydration.

Shobanas competition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAYWSx2k_60

i fail to see the difference between these two videos, dance wise.

The more you force yourself, the more bitterness is there in your heart. If some people “admire her for the abundant talent”, there are many more people who admire Pamela Anderson for her “abundant talent” too.

Now she has almost left films because nobody is offering her leading roles anymore. The flower has withered.

I would like to know what exactly you see (not just feel) as the “improvements” in the quality and standards of her dance. What exactly she can do now that she was unable to do before?

Kalanidhi narayan’s video is there as an exposure of the superficiality of her understanding and an illustration of the elderly dancers’ inability to perform any sringara-rich items.

As for my blog’s popularity, come on, it is not as popular there as http://www.theonion.com !!! You think this blog is the only place where I write? It is just my sandbox!!!

1. there is a video in between the post.. srungara lahari.. that features padmabhushan kalanidhi narayan. Why is the video there? What do you want us to infer from it?

2. WHY IS YOUR BLOG SO POPULAR IN THE US?? the live feed i can infer that all of them are from the US!!!!!!

I am surprised that your brother is stigmatized in the… USA! Of course, in the USA it is much harder to survive on dance alone, so unless he is really professional, he can dance at home.

He suffers from depression because he sold himself into the American economic slavery. Tell him to commit a suicide. Or at least to have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness

Rukmini Devi Arundale, despite being supported by her highly influential “husband”, could not rebel against society: to please the Brahmin caste, she created the Kalakshetra style by removing all the essential elements from Bharatanatyam, basically by killing it.

how do you feel about male bharatanatyam dancers? My best friends brother was bullied like no tommorow because he was a bharatanatyam dancer. he lives in the states so the stigma does exist. Now he suffers from depression and has become very weak and refuses to dance again.. franlly i believe that you should not give up something just because the people around you dont aprove… Look at rukmini devi arundale for example if she hadnt rebelled against society kalakshetra would never have been formed… So what are your views on bharatanatyam male dancers? should they be encouraged or not? what about the sabhas perferinmg females over males (does this mean that the bharatanatyam has connections to womanization)? personally im not a bharatanatyam dancer but im interested in watching it… and learning about it.

eagerly awaiting your reply